Gita 7.4

Sadhak: "Krishna lists eight elements as His nature. But why include mind, intellect, and ego with physical elements? These seem categorically different."

Guru: "From the materialist view, yes—mind seems fundamentally different from earth. But from the yogic perspective, mind is also a form of matter, just subtler. Your thoughts have a substance, a texture, a movement. The difference between a rock and a thought is not kind but degree of subtlety."

Sadhak: "That's hard to accept. My mind feels like "me" in a way that earth doesn't."

Guru: "Exactly—and that feeling is the trap. Notice that ego (ahaṅkāra) is listed as the last and subtlest element. The "I" feeling itself is material, not spiritual. What you take to be your deepest self is still prakṛti, not puruṣa. This is why Krishna lists all eight together: to reveal that even your sense of being a separate self is part of material nature, not the witnessing consciousness beyond it."

Sadhak: "If ego is material, what is the real self?"

Guru: "That is precisely what the next verse reveals. First Krishna shows you everything that is NOT your true self—however intimately you identify with it. The physical body: not you. The vital energies: not you. The mind with its thoughts: not you. The intellect with its discernments: not you. Even the sense of "I am this person": not you. All of this is God's material nature appearing as a psychophysical organism."

Sadhak: "This sounds like the teaching of "neti neti"—not this, not this."

Guru: "Precisely. But Krishna adds a crucial dimension: this is not mere negation but recognition. What you negate as "not-self" you simultaneously recognize as Divine nature. The ego isn't merely an illusion to be dismissed—it's Krishna's prakṛti to be understood. You don't destroy these eight elements; you see through your identification with them."

Sadhak: "If all this is God's nature, why do we suffer? Why does God's own nature cause pain?"

Guru: "Matter itself doesn't cause suffering—identification does. When consciousness forgets its own nature and identifies completely with the eight elements, it experiences their limitations as its own. A person dreaming experiences dream-pain though their sleeping body is comfortable. Similarly, pure consciousness identified with ahaṅkāra experiences the limitations of matter as personal suffering."

Sadhak: "So liberation means dis-identifying from these eight?"

Guru: "Liberation means recognizing what you truly are while remaining present to what you're not. You don't leave the body or destroy the ego—you see clearly that you are the witness, not the witnessed. The eight elements continue; your exclusive identification with them ends. This is living liberation: being in prakṛti but knowing yourself as the consciousness that knows prakṛti."