Gita 1.35

Sadhak: "Guruji, Arjuna says he won't kill even if they kill him. Isn't self-defense a right? Why surrender it?"

Guru: "Self-defense against strangers is one thing. But can you defend yourself against your grandfather? If your mother attacked you, would you fight back with full force? Arjuna is not making a universal statement about self-defense—he's speaking about this specific situation where the attackers are beloved."

Sadhak: "But if he doesn't fight, the Pandavas lose everything—kingdom, honor, family."

Guru: "Yes. This is the dilemma. If he fights, he loses his teachers and elders through killing them. If he doesn't fight, he loses everything through their victory. There is no option where he doesn't lose. The Gita's task is to change his relationship to loss itself, not to show him a loss-free path."

Sadhak: "He calls Krishna 'Madhusudana'—the demon-slayer. Is he mocking Krishna?"

Guru: "Not mocking—testing. He's saying: 'You killed demons, so you understand justified killing. But surely you can see these are not demons.' It's an implicit argument: 'Your precedent doesn't apply here.' What Arjuna doesn't yet understand is that the demon to be slain is not outside—it's his own confusion."

Sadhak: "The three worlds—is that literal or metaphorical?"

Guru: "In the cosmology of the Mahabharata, quite literal: heaven (svarga), earth (bhumi), and the underworld (patala). But the meaning is 'everything imaginable.' Arjuna is saying: 'You could offer me rule over the entire universe, and I would still refuse to kill my grandfather for it.' This is not a negotiation—it's a total rejection of cost-benefit thinking."

Sadhak: "That sounds enlightened—rejecting worldly gain. So is Arjuna spiritually advanced here?"

Guru: "He looks advanced, but he's actually stuck. True renunciation comes from fullness—seeing through desire because you've realized something greater. Arjuna's renunciation comes from despair—he doesn't want things because everything seems poisoned. The external behavior looks similar; the internal state is completely different. Krishna will help him find action from fullness rather than paralysis from despair."

Sadhak: "So this verse is the very bottom—the lowest point?"

Guru: "Precisely. He has refused everything: victory, kingdom, pleasure, life, cosmic sovereignty. There is nothing left to want. This is the zero point from which the Gita's teaching can begin. You cannot teach someone who thinks they still have options. Arjuna has exhausted all options. Now he's ready to listen."

Sadhak: "I've felt that despair—when nothing seems worth doing."

Guru: "Then you know Arjuna's state. And you also know that from that zero point, something new can emerge—or you can simply collapse. The Gita exists to show the emergence. From 'I don't want anything' can come either depression or liberation. The difference is guidance."